Brakes - Part 1
Brakes - Part 2
Brakes - Part 3
Brake Lines 101 

IRS Brakes - Part numbers

Courtney, Chad [c-courtney@ti.com] - "I'm now putting in the brake lines, I spent some frustrating time trying to double flare the lines with a double flaring tool borrowed from Autozone's rent a tools program. Do yourself a favor and don't bother with it. Go to Napa and spend about $25 on pre-flared 3/16" lines w/ 3/8-24 connectors, and some adapters and you'll be a much happier person. Here's what you need depending on your setup. Also, I'd suggest using the tried and true method to get accurate line bends by using a wire coat hanger and bend it where you need and then use it as a model so you're not trying to bend the lines inside the frame itself where you can't get a good tubing bender.

Live Axle	IRS	IRS w/ Earl's Braided Line Kit
Passenger Front	Passenger Front	Passenger Front
(2) 7/16"-24 double flare (DF) to 3/8"-24 DF adapter -- NAPA/Edelmann 7818	(2) 7/16"-24 double flare (DF) to 3/8"-24 DF adapter -- NAPA/Edelmann 7818	(2) 7/16"-24 double flare (DF) to 3/8"-24 DF adapter -- NAPA/Edelmann 7818
(1) 72" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)	(1) 72" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)	(1) 72" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)
Driver Front	Driver Front	Driver Front
(1) 7/16"-24 DF to 3/8"-24 DF adapter -- NAPA/Edelmann 7818	(1) 7/16"-24 DF to 3/8"-24 DF adapter -- NAPA/Edelmann 7818	(1) 7/16"-24 DF to 3/8"-24 DF adapter -- NAPA/Edelmann 7818
(1) 10mm-1 BUBBLE flare to 3/8"-24 DF adapter -- Edelmann 271300	(1) 10mm-1 BUBBLE flare to 3/8"-24 DF adapter -- Edelmann 271300	(1) 10mm-1 BUBBLE flare to 3/8"-24 DF adapter -- Edelmann 271300
(1) 20" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)	(1) 20" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)	(1) 20" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)
Rear	Rear	Rear
(1) std 3/16" brake line coupler -- NAPA/Edelmann 302x3	(1) 40" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)	(1) std 3/16" brake line coupler -- NAPA/Edelmann 302x3
(1) 40" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)	(1) 60" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)	(1) 40" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)
(1) 72" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)	(1) 50" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)	(2) 60" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)
	60"+40" to Driver side block, 50" to passenger side	(1) 30" preflared 3/16" line w/ std 3/16" DF fittings (3/8"-24)

Brakes Part 1: click here

Question: Is it a must to have a proportioning valve when using a manual 84 mustang master cylinder and rear disc brakes?

Comments:

[IL] "If you are running discs in the rear you don't need and valve. But I recommend the Wilwood adjustable inline valve in the rear line so you can change the brake bias."

[DW] "I'm running 4-wheel discs with the 84 m/c. I haven't found any need for the proportioning valve. If you have cut your pedal, you will find a little more pedal travel than you would like to have, but other than that, no problems."

[pp] "I could really be wrong on this but don't you need some residual pressure in the lines of like 3-4lbs on the rear discs so they react positively like the front discs???"

[EG] "There are two lines of thought. 1994 Cobra from a 4wd system. Others seem to be having good luck with the 84 Jeep from a 2wd system.
The jeep is cheaper at about $20.00 rebuilt vs $85 for a new bendix 94 cobra unit.

Personally I bought the cobra unit. Do not have it installed yet. Wayne swears by it. Inman and others swear by the jeep. They are both 15/16 bore."

[SC] "Should I not shorten my brake pedal if I use the 84 mustang master cylinder?"

[EG] "about 90% of all I ever read on the brake subject says to shorten your brake pedal regardless of what other setup you have. A few folks have reported that they had good brakes with out it. I don't actually ever remember someone saying their brakes were too sensitive."

I have disc all around a 84 MC with a adjustable prop valve in the rear line. In my case I found more bias to the rears helped then without it.

I'm told if you do a lot of racing on different tracks it helps to be able to change to the varying conditions track to track."

[Wade] "If you run power brakes, such as with the hydrobooster, you do not need to modify the brake pedal."

[SC] "I just got back from the junk yard. will a master cylinder off a 87 jeep work. I got a very clean aluminum master cylinder for almost nothing. it looks like it will bolt right up but will this master cylinder not have the right size bore?"

[EG] "The 84 jeep unit we have talked of so many times is a huge, iron, ugly thing. And, it has the connections on the correct side. If yours is pretty and aluminum, you do not have the one. Will yours work?? what is the bore size? What is the stroke and are the connections on the correct side??"

[SC] "It looks just like the 84 mustang cylinder but its aluminum and a little bigger. The connections ARE on the right side."

[EG] "I just checked and this 87 jeep master cylinder is 15/16" and has the brake lines on the correct side. Its a good bit bigger than the 84 mustang master cylinder but its made of aluminum so its about the same weight. Now I just have to make myself remove the master cylinder that's on the car now. I just hate getting that brake fluid ever were, and bleeding that brakes."

[CS] "You've got to add the option to use 94/95 spindles from either V6 or V8 cars. Then order 13" Cobra rotors/calipers from discbrakesrus.com. You can send back 'ANY' two mustang calipers for the core charge. This is the cheapest and most bang for the buck you can get!

For the rear you need to include Richard Oben's brackets for using cobra rear brakes. Remember to state that the caliper is the same on cobras as wheel as gt's. The rotor must be from a Cobra.

It is very simple.
1) Acquire 94/95 spindles from MPS or your local junkyard. These come
complete with sealed bearings. The last time I bought a set, they were
$75 each.
2) Order the Cobra Caliper kit and rotors from discbrakesrus.
3) Bolt them on!
4) The only thing that isn't quite bolt on is the 87-93 ball joint isn't
the right size for the spindles. So, either you must get 94/95 ball
joints or use a spacer shim. I don't know if FFR offers a 94/95 ball
joint for their lower A-arms or not. D&D Performance offers tubular
A-arms, with your choice of ball joint."

 

Tricks & Tips By Brendan Maze Five-Lug Conversion Front and Back for Big Savings     Hello everybody, and welcome to another installment of Tricks& Tips, your favorite little corner of 5.0 Mustang. At least I hope it is. Anyway, it seems that some of you were paying attention to the pain and suffering we at 5.0 were experiencing with this particular section and responded with some truly good suggestions (check out the one below). This is what it's about, people! Oh yeah, we know that last "cry for help" was kinda strange, what with the rather surly, burned-out attitude we displayed and that whole thing about 'coming to Papa." We've got to stop drinking so much (but at least it's socially acceptable behavior, thank God). So keep it up; keep the ideas coming in, and maybe you'll I win a prize, too. To put a nice point on it, we sincerely thank you for finding us a worthy enough mag to write us. You are the best readers we could wish to have. Now where did I leave my keys?     This month's winner will I receive one of our coolest giveaways yet: MPG Head Service's 5.0 windage tray kit. Designed to keep splashing oil I off the crankshaft and rods, the tray is made of lightweight 18-gauge steel and features a built-in adjustable scraper for maximum oil I control. Promising up to an extra 12 hp, the tray kit comes with heat-treated grade-8 main-cap bolts and nuts, making this unit a true bolt-on-no mods needed.     John Burton, of Aurora, Colorado, wrote a nice little letter that makes us all I happy and warm. He states:     Well, I just received my January issue of 5.0 Mustang and your sad crying out for "Li'l Tommy" made me just sob and forced me to think, What can I do to help? (Besides all the whining and crying, the article "Baer Necessities" reminded me of a nice little tip). You then asked "Where is the love?" Well, I'm not much for showing affection Oust ask my girlfriend), but here is my attempt to keep Li'l Tommy from dying of a broken heart.     This tip started with a broken 8.8 rearend: My '89 LX had spun the splines off the right axle shaft, so on the usual minimal budget to repair and get back on the road, I spent a day going through the salvage yard looking for parts. I ran across an 8.8-inch rear axle, but with a fivelug pattern. After running the part numbers, I found that it was out of a '91 Ranger pickup. I measured the drums, and lo and behold, they were the same size as the '87-'93 Mustang. I grabbed two driver-side axles (the passenger-side axle is too short), drums, and side gears, and began to repair my broken rear axle.     Then it dawned on me: I needed to convert the front rotors to five-lug, too. I broke down and purchased the Motorsport five-lug conversion kit (PN M-1102-C) at a cost of $160. While trying to press in a longer stud in one of the rotors, I cracked the rotor. So, I took the good rotor to the parts store and found a match: the '91 -and-older Lincoln Mark VII with 11 -inch rotors-and at only $42 a piece (as opposed to the Motorsport pieces costing $80 per).     So, to summarize: To convert from four-lug to five-lug on '87-'93 Mustangs, get two driver-side axles and two five-lug drums from the rear of a Ranger pickup (this is the same as the Motorsport kit M-1126A, but the price I paid is nowhere near the kit's $227 list). For the front, use the 11-inch rotors from a '91-or-older Mark VII. All of the original parts will work, including the bearings. With the multitude of aftermarket wheels available in five-lug, now older Mustang owners aren't limited to just the scarce four-lug versions. Greg Brittingham of Mustang Parts Specialities (770/867-2644) states that the Hollander Interchange part number for the Ranger driver-side axle is 447-2089L, and the length is 29.47 inches. If you want new parts, MPS sells the M-1126-A kit for $175 and the M-1102-C kit for $169. The Ford part number for the '79-'93 Mustang rear axles (nondisc brakes) is D9BZ4234C.

Good brake article: http://www.quickkeys.com/Cobra/photo-brakes.htm

Here a great place to get custom length e-brake cables made.
http://www.brakecables.com/products/Default.asp?ShowCategory=12

IRS Brake Information - Thanks John!

IRS Brakes using Lisman bracket - I got parts numbers that work in forum Cobra Grandstand at FFCobra Discussion Forums. To visit this topic, use this URL: http://www.ffcobra.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002572 Posted by John Phillips (Member # 144) on May 10, 2002, 01:25 PM:   There has been some discussion about what parts work or don't work when using the Lisman brackets (I bought mine from Breeze) to relocate your rear IRS brakes forward and upward so as to use larger Cobra rear rotors. I had some delay in mounting my rear calipers because I kept getting the wrong parts. I misunderstood what brake parts were required. Last night I got it right, with the patience and efforts of my local NAPA shop. FWIW, here are the parts numbers for the components I put together that absolutely work: Brake Rotors: FORD # F4ZZ-2C026 (Mustang Cobra '94-'99, I believe) Brake calipers/mounts: NAPA #442-4179 and 442-4178 (Mustang Cobra '94-'99 I believe). These are "LOADED", which means they come with caliper, pads, and mounting bracket, with new slider bolts and rubber boots. They cost $89.23 each; list at NAPA was $142.75, but my NAPA guy sells to me wholesale. The equivalent FORD part # for the calipers is: F4ZZ-2552-B, and F4ZZ-2553-B. You will have to order the FORD mount bracket separately, and I don't have that part #. My experience ordering the wrong Ford caliper mount brackets is that the factory brackets come with new slider pins and bolts. I believe the CALIPERS are identical to regular Mustang GT units, but with THINNER PADS to provide the greater clearance needed for the thicker ventilated Cobra rotors. The MOUNTING BRACKETS are different from the GT/T-bird units. They mount the caliper a little higher off the spindle. The Lisman brackets mount to the FRONT side of the T-Bird IRS spindle. I couldn't use stock T-bird calipers because you have to move the caliper UP HIGHER to clear the extra diameter of the Cobra rotor. The Lisman bracket required the extra height furnished by the Mustang Cobra rear caliper mounting bracket for the caliper to clear the rotor. I tried calipers and brackets from '93 Mustang Cobra, '91 T-bird (my donor rearend), and finally the ones listed above, which had the Cobra caliper mounting bracket that worked. I took some pics and will try to post them on the Phoenix page tonight. Hope this helps anyone else who gets confused as easily as me!   Posted by kadunkadunk (Member # 204) on May 10, 2002, 02:56 PM:   So, did you use the Lisman bracket or a Ford bracket? If u used the Lisman, what did u do to get it to work? Sorry if u answered it in the post. I just got confused all over again.   Posted by John Phillips (Member # 144) on May 10, 2002, 03:31 PM:   Easy to get confused if not looking at the parts. The Lisman bracket is used to fit Cobra rear rotors to your T-bird spindles on an IRS, in place of the stock T-bird rotors. You first bolt on the Lisman bracket, which goes on the forward side of the spindle. Then, you bolt the caliper and its mounting bracket onto the Lisman piece. If you use most Ford caliper mounting brackets, they won't lift the caliper high enough to clear the rotor. The caliper mounting brackets I posted WILL mount the caliper high enough to clear the rotor, when you bolt them onto the Lisman bracket. It'll make more sense when I can put up a pic or two, but that's as good as I can describe it.   Posted by Advil (Member # 403) on May 10, 2002, 05:16 PM:   This should go in the IRS FAQ section. Think so Bill?   Posted by russ thompson (Member # 346) on May 10, 2002, 07:17 PM:   John, I planning on the same set up for my coupe, hope I got all the right parts myself. I guess I'll try and bolt them up this weekend. One more note, you have to swap sides with the calipers so the bleeder is UP if I understand John Lisman correctly.   Posted by John Phillips (Member # 144) on May 10, 2002, 09:48 PM:   Russ, absolutely correct: swap right caliper to left, and left to right, so bleeder valve is on top when finally bolting em up. Lynn posted pics, but the Phoenix site is down for some reason...you can also access the photos at: www.webscando.com/phoenix The caliper bracket comparo pic shows how the Cobra bracket is a little higher than the stock T-bird unit I bought from Ford. I also had to grind away a little flashing from the bottom of the Cobra caliper mount bracket to have it fit flush and smooth against the Lisman bracket, no big deal. The Lisman bracket is the gold-colored piece in the pics. The caliper mount bracket is the black piece attached to the black caliper. I hope this eliminates some confusion. Email me if I can help.   Posted by Jim McGovern (Member # 480) on May 10, 2002, 10:34 PM:   Nice going, John. BTW, I'm going to order next week. BTW, thanks again for being so nice and taking the time last weekend to show me your car. Jim   Posted by John Phillips (Member # 144) on May 10, 2002, 11:33 PM:   Jim, I don't know why I didn't focus on how far you and yor wife drove to see my car! I should've figured it was Central Florida from all the love bugs, but was too project-focused to remember you came down fom Apopka! Thanks so much for taking all the time and effort to come down, and for your wife being so nice to Newman and Simba. Sorry I wasn't more of a host while you were visiting; I'll make up for it next time I promise. Please come down anytime you like, it was a pleasure having you here. OR...in a few weeks I'll drive the heck up there!!! Hey, ordering next week sounds like a June delivery date and summertime build, huh? Get you one of these garage window A/C units, they're worth their weight in donor parts!   Posted by russ thompson (Member # 346) on May 10, 2002, 11:35 PM:   Hey John, is that a tow bar hitch tube running thru the trunk box?   Posted by Richard Oben (Member # 52) on May 11, 2002, 09:28 AM:   Just an FYI, John is correct in the statement that all calipers for 94 up mustangs are the same. The LOADED ones are different. The difference is the intermediate bracket, the one the caliper slides in is wider to accept the wider vented rotor. The groove is cut wider so the rotor does not hit the caliper bracket. In review there are 3 parts to the caliper assembly for the rear. From the Axle/knuckle in order: 1,Caliper mounting bracket: part of the knuckle or bolted the rear housing on a live axle 2, Intermediate bracket: This part is what holds the pads in place forward and back. It is also what the caliper mounts slides onto. 3, Caliper itself only function to squeeze pads. Most of us think of calipers like the fronts where the bracket and caliper are one peice and just bolt to the spindle. I hope this helps. We had to uncover all of this when we designed the brackets. Cheers Richard. www.northcobras.com

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