Oh Boy, First thread- How much power

[Gordon Levy]

about 280hp. maybe 300 on a really good day.

[Mark9]

Gordon,

306, TF Twisted Wedge Heads, TF Stage 1 Cam, Mass-flo, 19lb injectors. Nothin but an alternator and a water pump. Aftermarket headers, cats.

300 at the crank?

Mark

[Gordon Levy]

You can see 325 at the crank but I feel you will need larger injectors.

[Mark9]

Thanks Gordon.

On a normally aspirated car, why would larger injectors allow for more HP??? Am I running the risk of the 19 pounders running too high a duty cycle and leaning out? Doesn't the computer control the amount of fuel based on air intake??

Thanks,

Mark

p.s. I'm a carb guy.

[cobrasgone]

ballpark on this one please?
Shelby alloy block,scat 485 stroker, 10 to 1 JE pistons, Eldebrock RPM heads, intake port matched, Harland rockers,comp cams 588 lift ex and in 252 in and 260 ex @.050 108 sep. part #279B Demon 850 mec.sec.
thanks.
ROB

[JOHNNY813]

302 EDL UPER AN LOWER MILD CAM AFR 165 HEADS 24LB INJECTERS 65MM TB, SAME COMBO BUT WITH GT40X HEADS HOW MUCH RWHP ON BOTH THANKS

SORRY BOUT THE CAPS

[BAM614]

302, Performer RPM heads, RPM intake, some carb (help?) e-cam, 1.6 roller rockers, roller valves/lifters, only alternator and WP, possibly going with electric WP. BBK shorties now, looking for 4x4's, any idea's? Eventually will see spray, maybe 100shot. smile.gif

Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

Mark, you will be fine with the 19# injectors up to 320hp. Above that the 24's are needed.
Rob, upper 5's. Close to 580hp and as much as 600 on torque.
Jonny, 320 flywheel on ether set up. RWHP depending on dyno will be 240-270
Bam, 340hp. As much as 365 with a better cam.

[BAM614]

340 flywheel hp right, not rwhp? Or am I lucky?

Also, which cam/carb would you recommend for me? I have the entire top end off the engine now, and think it has an e-cam, at least that was said when I bought it, but I'm willing to change it. Also, what kind of gains are seen with the 4-into-4's over shorty headers?

Thanks!

[Gordon Levy]

Thats flywheel

[JOHNNY813]

Hey,Gordon
what do i need to add or take away to get 300rwhp, and what would my mpg be? I want to keep it around 19-21 mpg. Can this be done or do i need low hp for better mpg?

Thanks,Johnny

[jkrueger]

I need to try as well.

302 with stock bottom end, GT40 heads (not sure if I want the 64cc or 58cc) E303 cam, roller rockers, Edelbrock performer intake, Edelbrock carb (not sure what size I need yet, 650CFM??).

Looking for steetable power with a good idle. Don't plan on revving over 5500 rpm. Shooting for 350 at the flywheel with a good amount of torque.

Thanks

[ February 20, 2007, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: jkrueger ]

[Gunnar]

Hi Gordon!

Not sure about the right intake/carb combo for this configuration:

- Stock 302 bottom end
- AFR 185cc Twisted Wedge heads, ~10:1 CR
- TFS Stage II cam (224°/232° .542/.563 (@1.6)112°)
- 1.7:1 RR
- Long tube headers w/ free flow exhaust

I'm thinking about either a Performer RPM Airgap intake or a Victor Jr., Carb either 650 or 750cfm... Any HP guesses for these combos? Things that I should change?

"Usage profile" for that engine: Street use most of the time, track and auto-x only several times a year, NOT a daily driver, must survive WOT for at least 30 mins (no speed limits here :)), 6500rpm redline. I'm not really concerned about low end torque on a 2300lbs car, emissions are not an issue, rough idle is ok but I need acceptable throttle response from about 1800rpm so that i can cruise at rather low rpms on the highway when traffic is heavy...

Thanks for your help!

Gunnar

[Gordon Levy]

Gunner, I see a very big issue for you coming up. You said you were using a stock bottom end which I assume means a stock piston. The cam you have chosen has way to much lift for a stock piston. With the 1.7 rockers you will have .575 intake and .598 exhaust lift.
The stock piston will accept up to .530 comfortably. I feel you are going to have very big problems unless you change to a cam of less than .500 lift or change you pistons to a good aftermarket.

[Gunnar]

Gordon,

thanks for the reply... Since I read somewhere that TFS heads are good for .600 lift I thought the TFS cam with 1.7 RR would be an ideal combination to use the whole potential. Going to aftermarket pistons (or rework the original) would be an option if the added lift would result in significantly more tq&hp. Let's assume the combo with a lower-lift-cam would result in 380hp (just as an example), I'd be happy to spend the extra $$$ for new pistons if I get 30 or 40 hp more. If I'd get "only" 390hp instead of 380hp using the higher lift I'd save the money... So now I have three things to decide:

- intake
- carb size
- cam lift/dished pistons

what would be the best combination for my needs?

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experience!

Gunnar

[cobrasgone]

thanks Gordon

Rob

[Tim Mckinley]

http://www.fordcobraengines.com/Mass_flo351w.htm

This engine good to go with ???

just got enrolled in the build school and will be purchasing my kit within a week after just looking for engine to go with.

[Gordon Levy]

You may want to look at one of mine. A bit more expensive but a better/stronger package.

[KLH]

Gordon, how about this,

306 race short block (cleanup bore .030 over)
TrickFlow twisted wedge heads, 2.02 stud mount
TFS cromo hardened pushrods 6.7" 5.0
TFS roller rockers for TW heads 1.6 ratio
TFS track heat hyd roller cam 221/225, .499/.5105.0 Cobra intake
Port Cobra intake
Edelbrock 70mm throttle body 86-93 5.0
Pro M Bullet 75mm MAF sensor
Ford Motorsport 24 lb injectors

Thanks.

[NOS1290]

Gordon, can't resist the tempatation:

351/360 SBF (.030 bore and .020 stroke)
Line honed and Balanced to 7500 rpm
Custom Comp Cam hydraulic roller cam with block machined to fit spider and lifter guides.
230/238 duration @ .050"
108 degrees lobe sep
.544/.561 lift
AFR 185s with 62 cc chamber and bumped spring pressure.
Flat top pistons = about 10.5:1 compression.
Performer RPM intake (has to fit in a coupe)
Holley 4150 / 750DP
Coupe headers and sidepipes (may upgrade to roadster sidepipes for more power)

I built the motor for more high reving power than brute torque.
Tom

[Gordon Levy]

KLH- about 350hp
Tom, the intake is killing you. I can see about 470 out of this package. If you went with a Victor Jr or super victor intake, you would pick up another 30 or so hp up top.

[NOS1290]

Thanks Gordon. I think the hood line on the Coupe will still interfere with the intake I have. Not sure if there is a better comprimise.

[Gordon Levy]

Tom, there isn't a good compromise intake that would be better than what you have. The other option is to use a taller scoup.

[jeremyhogg]

331, roller block w/ 1.6 ratio, about 9.7:1 C.R, Victor junior heads, Summit Stage 3 intake manifold(exactly like the edelbrock rpm air gap but cheaper), right now B303 (with roller cam bearings)cam but VERY open to suggestions, 600 cfm edelbrock carb, electric water pump, main girdle, windage tray.

[Seaward1]

Gordon, When I purchased my turn-key Cobra there was a certain HP he seemed to think. But I've attached some ingo here and would really value your best educated guess.
Thanks
See Below:
1993 302 cu. in. block, bored .030” over
Professionally built by Beach Performance, Albany, OH

Balanced and blueprinted
Crankshaft – FMS
Rods – FMS
Pistons – Speed Pro Forged 9.5:1
Timing Chain – Cloyes
Cam – Lazer custom ground hydraulic roller, FW HR 281A 287B, 228/234 @ 50,
total lift = 550, 1.06 centerline
Push rods – Smith Bros.
Valve Springs – Crane BB chevy true dble. springs
Valves – Manley
Rocker arms – Comp Cam forged roller rockers
Rocker posts - ARP
Heads – World Products Windsor Jr., steel, professionally polished and ported
Intake manifold – Edelbrock Air Gap
Bolts – ARP
Carb – Edelbrock 600 CFM
Headers – FFR (Hooker) 4 into 4, ceramic coated
Header gaskets – Earls prof. Polished and ported, w/BB chevy true dble springs
Ignition system – MSD 6AL
Coil – MSD Blaster
Under pulleys – March
Oil pan – Gordon Levy, 8 qt.
Distributor – MSD billet
Water pump – reverse rotation
Spark plug wires – FMS 8 mm, blue
Air filter – K & N Xtreme high volume

[Gordon Levy]

Boss- about 400hp/400lbft of torque. You would bake great agins with a cam, intake and carb change.
tpinpma- You have a nice package but I am a bit concerned about the 106 center on the cam. This is generally reserved for very high revving engine and hydraulic roller cams are done before 7K.
That aside- it would be a really nice 360-370hp package.

[Seaward1]

Gordon thanks for the answer. I do know she's quick. What can happen with this cam concern and what or should there be a change made.
Thanks again. :eek: :rolleyes:

[D9ZZ]

1979 351w
probe srs pistons 4.030" valce cuts (4cc) for twisted wedge and regular heads
scat 5.955 h-beam rods
stock crank balanced with above
edelbrock rpm air gap manifold
edelbrock peformer heads 2.02 in -1.6 ex 60cc
edelbrock cam #7182 290int 300exh advertised.
@.50 lift 224int 234exh .496 int lift .520 exh lift with 1.6 rockers
650 demon carb
would like hp estimate and any suggestions.
this will re-reside in my fox body until a cobra becomes reality

[Gordon Levy]

tp- it's anything to be concerned about but I feel you may be giving up some low end torque and mid range power.
D9- about 425hp

[Cobra 302]

Just found this looks like fun, let's try.

1. stock 87 short block from Lincon mark VIII. don't know compresion.
2. TFS stage 1 cam
3. TFS street wedge heads 61CC
4. TFS track heat up and lower
5. 42 pound injectors
6. Accufab adj fuel regulator/ NO FMU
7. 255 Walbro High pressure pump
8. VOrtech VS-1 3.33 pully 8-10 pound of boost
9. 90 MM lighting MAF
10. SCT chip
11. stock fuel lines.
12. BBK equal shorty headers

John

[Gordon Levy]

John, About 470hp. I would suggest some larger fuel lines but it sounds like a very nice package.

[Cobra 302]

WOWOWOWOWO

Are you saying 470 RWHP or FWHP?
I got her to the dyno a month ago.
Before the head gasket went it was 356RWHP @ 5200RPM.
That is amazing if I get 470HP even if it is at the crank.

John

[jeremyhogg]

Gordon you said I could get big gains from a cam, intake and carb swap. What would you suggest cause I am going to a swap meet on Fri. to look for more parts.

[Gordon Levy]

There are a couple of big hydraulic rollers from Comp that would work well. Victor JR intake and a holley 650 DP or pro series.

[WVU Robo]

Gordon, which hydr roller cams from Comp are you fond of? What is the difference between the magnum series and the Xtreme energy series anyway? I am trying to decide now, but when I call Comp Cams, am I really talking to an "expert" or just a salesman. I am sure the Summit people are all salesman and none have any training.
Oh yeah,
393 Scat stroker kit balanced
ported and polished 71 heads w/ 194 intake
RPM Airgap and unk carb yet

Thanks -Robo

[Gordon Levy]

If you call comp talk to Dennis. He knows what he is talking about.
I can't tell you the difference. I have profile in both I like.
For off the shelf I like the 280HR or the 286HR. Most of the profiles I use are custom.

[WVU Robo]

Thank you sir! -Robo p.s this forum stuff kicks arse!

[Gordon Levy]

302- I always estimate flywheel hp. There are way to many variables with the different brands of chassis dyno's while I have found the most engine dyno's are within about 5% of each other.

[Neal]

408 Windsor
10.5 compression
Victor Jr. Heads / Intake
BG Demon 750
Comp Cams XFI Roller 304/314 .608 in /.608 ex

[Gordon Levy]

Around 540hp/525tq

[MarkH]

How about something a bit unusual?

World Man O' War 8.2" deck aluminum block
4.125" bore x 3.000" stroke
11.5:1 SCR
5.7" SBC titanium rods w/ 2.000" big end
1.000" compression height pistons
Scat Q-light 7000 Series crank
Arao C-2 32v head
TWM 50mm IR throttle bodies
Solid roller
0.479" intake lift
0.518" exhaust lift
236 duration
1.75" 180-degree headers

[ April 23, 2007, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: MarkH ]

[Gordon Levy]

Mark, Building a 40?
I have built a simular engine but the cam you have chosen is really weak unless that is lobe lift. I also need the flow numbers on the heads.
Best guess would be around 450 at 7200 if you cam specs are valve lift. If they are lobe lift, around 520hp at around 8200.

[MarkH]

Not building, just thinking. So what was similar in your build? I'm guessing not the heads....

Yes, lobe lift, and the numbers need to be increased for lash. Head flow numbers are here. (http://www.araoengineering.com/popwin/fordc2.htm) Port area is approximately equal to a 220cc runner.

[Rich215]

Gordon,

How about this..

306
New Rods
Stock Pistons
E303 Cam
B351 Roller Rockers
New GT40P Heads
Mass-Flo EFI

[Gordon Levy]

Mark, no I haven't used those heads but I have used much larger flowing heads. If you want to talk about your future set up, please give me a call.
Rich, about 300-310hp.

[Berad]

Gordon,

How about this car from the for sale forum?

331 CID HP Fisher Engineering
331 Stroker Kit
DART aluminum heads, ported, polished and flowed.
Dual Four Barrel carburetors
High performance matched Cam and valve train.

[Gordon Levy]

I'd say around 420 or so. The discription really isn't telling me much.

[mjlangley]

Gordon,

I'll get in on this:

-HO shortblock
-GT40x heads
-Explorer intake/TB
-F-cam
-1.72 roller rockers

The shortblock is in useable condition at standard bore, will an overbore and higher CR pistons be needed with the 64cc chambers?

How do the 'x' heads stack up against other alloy offerings?

Is it worth ditching the letter cam for something else?

This will be a DD motor.

Thanks for your advice!

-Matt

[Gordon Levy]

Matt, The X heads are OK. They work fine to about 380hp, them they need work.
There are way better cams out there than the F. I would also recommend using 1.6 instead of 1.7 rockers.
Your package as listed with make about 325hp.

[SGC48]

Gordon,

I see mostly, if not exclusivly, small blocks in this thread so I'll though one in the ring for the Big Block guys. Heres what I'm running :

-'67 427 Side Oiler service block
-0.030" over (434 cid)
-3.78" stroke forged crank (OEM)
-10.6 : 1 SCR
-Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads, 72cc chambers
-Blue Thunder 1x4 dual plane intake
-850cfm AED holley based carb
-0.595" lift cam w/ 0.027" valve lash
-Advertised duration 286*IN / 294*EX
-Lobe center is 108*
-Cam power band is 3500-6500
-Solid lifters
-Roller shaft mount rockers

What do you think? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

-SGC

[Gordon Levy]

SGC, A real 510hp/500tq. I wish better alumnum heads existed such as something simular to a tunnelport head. I had a rep from Genesis in my office a few years ago on their new FE blocks and he asked what I would like to see. I said a real set of heads and a really good intake. I guess they didn't think it was important.

[Joe Campbell]

Gordon, any idea on power for the new FMS 342 crate? They don't list which cam they're using in it. Aluminum GT40X heads.

[Gordon Levy]

Best guess would be around 400hp

[chickendukie]

i wanna play....lets back in to this one. I have a stock 302 that has just been fresh'en up. All is still standerd sizing,Basicly a re-ring job. I'm ready for my build and would like to stay around 300 to 320 hp. I need to pass emmissions so i will stay efi. Thanks

[chickendukie]

sorry about that.........what should i get cam, heads,.......stuff to stay at the 300 hp range.
Think budget...budget....budget. Thanks

[chickendukie]

sorry about that.........what should i get cam, heads,.......stuff to stay at the 300 hp range.
Think budget...budget....budget. Thanks

[Bullitt1]

I haven't seen too many strokers here, so here goes!!!

I'm looking for a street w/ Occasional track outings.

-347 Stroker
-KB Performance Hypereutectic pistons
-Scat Crank
-Crane lifters & Cam lobe 110 int 266 exh 266 lift .469
-Victor Jr heads
-dual plane intake
-holley 750 CFM vacuum secondary


What did I forget??? Thanks!!!

[Gordon Levy]

chicken, a good cam less than .520 valve lift, head-Iron GT40 or better, intake- cobra or better for EFI, performer RPM for carb. This will put you in to 300-320 range.
Chris, 400 or so. You would do better with more cam and intake and less carb.

[Bullitt1]

Thanks Gordon!!!

[chickendukie]

that meets budget too.....Thanks

[edhunter]

Gordon; This engine is in a 65 fastback I'm considering buying...
# Standard bore NOS BOSS 302 4 bolt main block
# TRW Forged pistons 10:5 to 1 #L2218 – runs fine on pump gas.
# Resized Hi-Po rods w/ ARP bolts
# Polished Hi-Po crank bottom end balanced
# LeMans solid lifter cam 304’ duration .510 valve lift 94’overlap
# Ported Hi-Po heads with 1.97” intake & 1.60” stainless valves
# ARP head studs
# Screw in studs guide plates with roller rockers, Crower springs & retainers
# Mallory ignition

Recently built engine... few miles since restoration... Any guess what the engine's worth, and what it might do on a dyno? what's the rev range of that cam?
thanks, ed

[Gordon Levy]

Using a PRM intahe and Holley 650, you will make about 360hp. If you went with a bit more cam, head, use a VJ intake, you can make around 425@ 7500 revs.

[DWIGHT]

I have a 5.0 1996 block with a 354 stroker kit, 3.47" x 4.03" with 5.4 rods,
EFI, 90 mm mass air, 70mm TB, 36 lb injectors, 255 lph pump, tuned chip, Holley systmax upper and lower plenum,
190cc Pro Comp aluminum heads 2.02 - 1.6, 10.7 - 1 cr.
1.7 roller rockers,
1 5/8" headers,

Comp cam 35-518-8 fw XE274HR-12
gross valve lift int .555 ex .565
duration @ .006 tappet lift 274 in ex 282
valve timing @.006 open close
int 29 BTDC 65 ABDC
ex 77 BBDC 25 ATDC
these specs are for cam installed @108 intake center line
int ex
duration @ .05 224 232
lobe lift .3480 .3540
lobe separation .112

street car, 2660 lbs with full tank and driver, TKO 600, 3:55 gears and 25.25" tires.
I would like to pull strong to 6200

Do I have the correct cam? Will the 70 mm TB support 450 hp? Will the Holley upper & lower support 450 hp to 6200 rpms?

Thanks Dwight

[DWIGHT]

Gordon are you there? Gone racing I bet.

Dwight

This is one of the best threads that I have read. Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

Your making about 410hp right now. You could use some more cam. No a 70mm tbody will not support 450hp, I thing a 75 would have a hard time. The Holley intake works well, I don't believe you should change it.

[GECCO]

Deleted - question became irrelevant once I changed my plans....again!

[ June 01, 2007, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: GECCO ]

[DWIGHT]

Thanks Gordon, you know your stuff!

I had the car dyno'ed and it produced 323 rwhp and 375 rwtq. Very close to the 410 flywheel hp you said. Why the different in hp - tq? Peak hp / tq was 4800 rpms. A lot lower than I wanted. What would it take to move it up the rpm range close to 6000 - 6200.

Would a 80mm TB be a good investment? What do you mean by more cam?


Thanks Dwight


Gordon
What does this dyno chart tell you?
And thanks, you have been a big help. And saved me some money.

http://www.winkflash.com/photo/imagew2.aspx?c=3870024&i=139104666&z=0

http://www.winkflash.com/photo/imagew2.aspx?c=3870024&i=139104667&z=0

[ June 03, 2007, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: DWIGHT ]

[Britlad]

Gordon,
I am thinking of putting GT40Ps and a B303 or E303 cam with Edelbrock RPM 289 intake and Edelbrock 600cfm carb on a stock 302 (1986). Does this make any sense for a low cost option and what output do you think.
Regards,
Michael

[Gordon Levy]

Dwight, I can't read the graphs.
There are several things that make the torque so much higher than the hp. 1 can be a programming problem with the dyno software, I've seen this before.
Cam profile, intake, exhaust all contribute to how an engine runs and in what power band. These can be changed to move both hp and torque bands around.
If you want to talk about your set up and how it can be improved, please give me a call at 520-494-2745.
Britlad, I think you may have some piston to valve clearance issues with the 86 short block. I believe they had a flat top piston with no valve reliefs. This must be confirmed before you change any parts.
I know there are better cams out there and if you want I can recommend a few. Yes this is a reasonably low priced option to get about 300hp out of your engine.

[Britlad]

Gordon,
I call myself the "lost limey" as I am English and trying to catch up with US engines. The pistons have 4 small cut-outs about 1/8-3/16th deep as 4 new moons on the top of the piston. I am not looking for huge horsepower but a little fun and a very drivable car so i thought 300hp was a good target.OEM GT40Ps @$255ea is tempting but maybe Edelbrock heads and cam will be safer. Any advice from the experts is very welcome.
Regards,
Michael

[Gordon Levy]

The P head is a decent cost effective upgrade but there are a couple of issues. First is that head doesn't flow much better than the stock head unless you do a minimum of a port job on the pockets. That little bit of port work increases flow by almost 20%. You also want to change the valve springs as any decent cam is going to be around .500" lift. The stock springs will float at around 5500 revs.
General inexpensive parts have a final cost that is usually pretty close to the cost of the good stuff.

[Snakefan]

Gordon,
I posted before but have since changed my mind (read:budget) on a couple things. This is what I have now:

Stock '89 bottom end
AFR 165 heads w/roller rockers
Trickflow Stage 1 cam
Cobra Intake
Edelbrock 65mm throttle body
Pro M 70mm maf w/ 30# injectors
Thoughts?

[Gordon Levy]

You'll make about 320hp. Please check valve to piston clearance.

[Joe Campbell]

Somewhat similar to Snakefan's in the FFR I just bought, except with GT40 X303 heads, explorer intake and TB with port matching. Stock cam, 19lb /hr injectors. 4-into-4 headers.

Thinking of swapping out the cam, do you like the trick flow or what do you recommend to maximize this combo for good grunt and streetability? I do some autoXing as well, but mostly spirited mountain road driving. Will I need to bump up to bigger injectors/MAF to stay safe? If so, I'll probably wait.

Planning to do a full stroker motor later on, but I think this motor's leaving some on the table with the stock cam. A lopey idle and a good blast through the revs has therapeutic benefits as well!

[ggh]

Gordon
My setup is 351w stroked 408
30 over
world products sr heads ported & polished
harland sharp 1.6 rockers
750 eldebrock carb
comp cams solid roller
lift 602 608
dur@.050 236 242
lob sep 110
compression 165 on tester
4into 4
duraspark ign.
forged internals
girdles top & bot
Will this be a reasonable street motor and where do you think the torque will come in?
Thanks for your time
Greg

[Gordon Levy]

Joe, I have a couple of Comp profiles that will work great. Yes you will need to go with a 24# injector and air meter. You can make 350hp with a good tune.
Tin, about 525/535. It's going to come on hard around 3000 revs. I think you can make some gains with larger heads. It is a nice package.

[ggh]

Hi Gordon I was thinking the heads should be changed what would you suggest? The motor was started on sunday for the first time and it has a shake and sound.
Once again thanks
Greg

[Gordon Levy]

Tin, I think a worked set of Victor Jr's or TFS R would be good for a bunch.

[AustinSnake]

Gordon,

Here's mine:

Stock 302 block bored and stroked to 331.

Mild cam (for smooth idle).

Dart aluminum heads.

Heavily ported stock intake manifold (don't have flow rates yet, but quote, "We ported the sh*t out of it").

Stock throttle body.

Stock EFI and fuel injectors planned (need to convert from am '87 Speed Density computer to Mass Flow setup).

What think?


Much appreciated,
Brian

[Gordon Levy]

About 300hp but the torque will be really high. Step up the t-body, air meter, and injectors and it will really run.

[JOHNNY813]

How about this set up?
afr 165 heads,harden trickflow push rods
edelbrock performer upper an lower
24lb injecters
65mm tb 70mm maf
1.6 rr
headers
mild cam
stock bottom end 302

What would be my rwhp? thanks alot Gordon

[Gordon Levy]

Depending on the dyno 260-280 at the wheels.

[Dave06]

Just discovered this thread -this is great...

Here are the parts I already own:
347 stroker short block
Ford Racing B cam
Trick Flow twisted wedge heads (street version)
1.6 rockers
Mass-Flo Intake system
24 lbs injectors


Thanks,

Dave

[Gordon Levy]

Right at 400hp at the flywheel

[Scott Shumaker]

This is the motor in my coupe, what do you think for flywheel hp and tq?

331 stroker
10-1 compression
60cc Pro Comp heads with 190cc intake runners, mildly ported
Comp cam .544 intake .544 exhaust at .050, lobe sep 112.0
professional products airgap intake
Holley 650dp carb
1.6 roller rockers
hyd roller lifters

Thanks, Scott

[Gordon Levy]

Scott, about 420/400. The cam you listed I beleive is ment for 1.7 rockers to achieve that lift. You may want to double check.

[Scott Shumaker]

Gordon,

your right... With 1.6 rockers, it'll have lifts of .512/.512. What do you think it will be with this change?

The cam is a comp xe270hr, grind #35-324-8

When I put this motor together, I was shooting for a 400/400 output. Looks like I was pretty close.

Thanks, Scott

[cavpsyoper]

Gordon,

Here's one that I will confirm when I get the car to the DYNO...

95 Cobra short block and cam
Edlebrock Aluminum 1.90 heads
Crane "Cobra" rockers 1.6?
Cobra intake
24 lb injectors
No power steering

Steve

[Gordon Levy]

Cav, about 330 flywheel. which is about 270 ot so rear wheel.
Scott, I have that cam in my Mustang in a built 306 and 1.7 rockers. It makes a real 400hp and I turn it 6800 regularly.

[Dave06]

Gordon,

I have a 347 stroker short block (see post above) and it has forged internals with all Trick Flow valve train (rockers, lifters, heads, valves, etc). What do you think about using a 347 in a street/track day car? I like to go to 3-6 track day weekends (road course, not drag), but have read through the years that a 347 isn't a good choice for constant higher RPM applications like track days. What is your opinion? Also, what would you set the rev limiter to?

Thanks in advance...

Dave

[ July 13, 2007, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Dave06 ]

[sflaten]

Gordon,
I'd like a guess at what a new uograde might be that you suggested.

How about a 302 bored to 306 EFI; pistons are 9.2:1 with -1.7cc; E303; Cobra upper and lower intake; 75mm MAF I believe; 70mm Accufab TB; Edelbrock Performer RPM heads with 1.92" valves to be sure to clear pistons; 1.6 roller rockers; 4 into 4 headers and side pipes; 24# injectors. What do you think? Any other suggestion to add?(might be able to use 2.02" as the pistons do have some eyebrows if that would make a difference)

TIA Steve

[ July 03, 2007, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: sflaten ]

[JOHNNY813]

HEY,Gordon do you have a cam that will get me about 300 to 350 rwhp?

thanks,Johnny

[Gordon Levy]

Dave, 6500 but I think the power is going to fall off at about 5800.
sflaten, About 340hp
Johnny, not without a blower.

[JOHNNY813]

Well thanks anyway 260/280 is good for me then.

thanks,Johnny

[FrankenCobra]

Hi Gordon,

I already have:

Stock 87 5.0 block/crank/pistons
Pro-M 75mm MAF
65mm TB
Trick Flow Street Intake (long runner)
42lb injectors
AFR165 heads
1.7 Rollers
Stock 87 5.0 Cam

It is tuned great and produces 310 RWHP and a super broad / flat torque curve with a peak of 355 RWTQ.

My last dyno chart (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/philcat7/Cobra/dyno400.jpg)

Any recommendations on a cam only upgrade?

Thanks....

[ July 11, 2007, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: FrankenCobra ]

[Gordon Levy]

You can definately benefit from a cam.

[FrankenCobra]

Any recommendations on a make/model of cam for this application?

Thanks....

[Gordon Levy]

There's a couple blower cams from comp that are pretty good. Don't exceed .520" valve lift.

[FrankenCobra]

Thanks for the advice...

[D9ZZ]

I asked a few months ago too and changed a few things due to $$.
357W (.030 over 351)
Edelbrock performer RPM heads 60cc
FRPP 1.6 roller rockers
Edelbrock AIr gap RPM manifold
Edlelbrock 7182 cam
Probe/CHP- SRS pistons with dual flycuts
tool steel floating pins
Scat h-beam rods
Balanced rotating assy - turned .010 crank
Stock remanned distributor from 82 van/duraspark ignition.
Edelbrock (weber) 650cfm adjustable vacuum secondary carb.
new -stock fuel pump from 82 van
new -stock oil pump
the car is tubed with 5/16 fuel line. Will that be enough?
Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

You will be right around 380-400hp.
I would like to see 3/8" fuel like and a lorger pump.
Ditch the duraspark and put a MSD system in. You will make more power with less issues.

[GB_Racing]

Oh man this is a cool thread - the coolest. Thanks Gordon.

Totally stock 91LX 5.0
1.5L Kenne Bell with 9.0 PSI pulley
80MM pro M mass air
28lb injectors ( the other day my wife said the Odyssey just doesn;t seem to run right anymore ?)

Also, what is the first thing you would you do with $2000. Many say twisted wedge track heat because few lowers will fit a KB.

[Gordon Levy]

A realistic 350-370hp.
I would change cam, heads and intake for the $2K. But, you will need to change to a 36# injector and recalibrate the air meter.

[fsstnotch]

408 stroker
forged .030 +19.30cc dish
forged I beams
cast crank
60cc vic jr's
pro products typhoon intake
edelbrock performer 750 carb
pro comp 1.6 roller rockers
.520/.544 234/244 112 separation cam
March serp conversion alum pulleys
4 to 4 headers

Where can I improve? Recommendations?

Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

You are goimg to make around 485hp but your torque numbers are going to be around 540-550. If it was my choice, I would go with more cam and use a Holley carb.

[twan374]

Gordon, I am building a coupe for the street. It has a t-5 and 3:27 IRS rear. I am looking for the best bang for the buck that will be drivable and reliable and deliver the most torque and horsepower. It will be a carb set up. I Have the experience and tools to do the build myself. My quandry is the vast ammount of combinations of parts available. I am thinking of buying a 347 short block already assembled and machined and building it from there. I am also considering the Edlebrock top end kit which promises 367 hp from a 302( Pt #2091 ) using a flat tappet hyd. Cam although I would prefer hyd.a Roller

[BLISTIC]

How about this one Gordon?
289 block bored .030.
Flat top forged pistons.
302 rods and crank.
351w (C90E)milled for 54cc Measured compression at 10.1 Valves 1.94I and 1.60E. Manly proflow.
Roller 1.6 rockers. triple springs.
Ported and polished with 7 angle valve job.
Torker intake port matched. 700cfh DP holley.
Cam lunati .488 duration 288. bracket II
My desktop dyno was aourn 396hp 398tq. Seems a bit more than that to me.

Headers Hooker supercomp's with Dr.gas X and spintechs.

[toy264]

Here's what I've got- + 0.030 289 block, 289HP rods, Boss 302 crank, 1970 351W heads ported & polished with 2.02/1.60 valves, 1.6 roller rockers & solid tappet Le Mans cam, 4X 48IDA's--What should this make and what would I need to change to make 400 HP at 6000?
Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

Tony, You have several options. You may want to see the thread going on in Ask Gordon right now about a 408 that has issue with the top end package you are thinking about. You will have similur issues but not to as high a level. You would be better off with a complete, properly matched package from someone like me. Buying a short block and finishing it yourself will cost nearly as much as a complete package.
BLISTIC, realistically you have around 320-330hp. The heads are hurting a lot and you really need to turn the 289 above 7000 revs to really make power and the cam you have won't do it. I also think you have to much carb.
Bob, how hard are you turning this engine? You have a pretty common vintage BP set up that's make good power at 7000-8000 revs but isn't really nice in the street.
To get that kind of power at 6000 revs with the 289 if going to be tough but it will entail a cam change and switching to a carb or stack injection system. The webers just won't make the power down low.

[fernando]

Hello Gordon,finnaly I got my engine,what do you think about this combination? and if you think it can be improved? I,m planning on some track use. Thank you Gordon.
393,Victor Jr heads,750 Proform carb,Ford Racing alum intake manifold,compresion ratio 11.8 :1 , TFS roller operating range 3.200-6.800 rpm.,@.50 lift int.236/exh 248.Initial timing 14º, 34º@3000rpm. MSD 6AL. FFR´s provided Hooker headers.Underdrive pulleys.All the group has been fully balanced.Again, thank you.
Fernando.

[BLISTIC]

Gordon.
BLISTIC, realistically you have around 320-330hp. The heads are hurting a lot and you really need to turn the 289 above 7000 revs to really make power and the cam you have won't do it. I also think you have to much carb.

Seems close to the right numbers. I fig'r either way + or -. My compression numbers may be somewhat higher by a point or two.
The purpose of my build was for road racing short course. IE solo I and II. Workable rpm range of 1500 to 5k.
Since my porting of the heads...I really hogged them out also. The torque has been way more than I ever imagined.
I do have a set of aluminum pro-comps and that funnel web.
I will get a dyno reading for this engine before i switch over to the pro's and funnel web.
I am still kinda worried about PTV clearence with this engine..It has alot to do with these heads and the amount they were shaved.
So let me first CC these new heads and double check the PTV. I still may keep the cam. It sounds great and pulls like hell from the bottom up.

[toy264]

Bob, how hard are you turning this engine? You have a pretty common vintage BP set up that's make good power at 7000-8000 revs but isn't really nice in the street.
To get that kind of power at 6000 revs with the 289 if going to be tough but it will entail a cam change and switching to a carb or stack injection system. The webers just won't make the power down low.
Gordon-
I'd like to keep the rpm down to 7000-7500 just because of the 2 bolt mains. I'm bummed since I found out today my high-dollar (in 1972 dollars!)351 heads only flow 205/121 at 0.500. I'm thnking of replacing them with AFR 205s and a modern cam. Is that a reasonable alternative, or are the Webers going to be the limiting factor at 6000 regardless of what I do elsewhere?
Thanks

[fernando]

Hello Gordon, I forgot to mention on the post(29 august) that I´m using Harland Sharp 1.6 rocker rollers and mechanical roller lifters. What do you think about a "red" Holley fuel pump (97 gph)in charge of all this?. Thank you for the time you put into this.
Fernando.

[Gordon Levy]

Bob, I think 205's would be way to big. Not being a fan of AFR, I would recommend using a Performer RPM head and a Victor Jr intake. The Victor Jr heads as well as the 205's are way to big to make any low end torque. That 289 wouldn't start to run until 5000 revs. A good hydraulic roller cam would help also to bring up the low end torque. Your RPM limit would be around 6500-6800 revs. Hydraulic cams just do want to rev higher. I also think the webers are going to limit low end torque but hurt top end hp.

[Gordon Levy]

FM, I think you are going to be right at 500hp. I am a little concerned about your compression ratio. You are really going to need to run this on 97 or higher octane fuel. Lower octane can result in detenation and will kill the engine over time.
The Holley red fuel pump is a lower pressure pump really designed for webers. I would use something more along the lines of an Aeromotive 220 and use a -8 feed line.

[fernando]

Hello Gordon, thank you for taking the time to help ourselves with our toys.Here in Venezuela the highest octane is 95(and it cost 5 cents a liter...nice!!), so I´ll follow your advice and lower the C.R.a little bit maybe adding a thicker gasket, or use an octane booster.The red Holley fuel pump is going out.
BTW Gordon:People like you make this forum the best.
Fernando.

[Gordon Levy]

Fernando, Glad to help. Enjoy the car, it's all about the fun.

[toy264]

Gordon-
I want to use the Webers so I'll accept the high-end HP hit, but I'll take your advice on the heads and go smaller. Thank you!

[4-Harps]

Just discovered this... I'm planning this set up and would appreciate an HP estimate...

99 explorer block w/GTP heads, E303 CAM, 70MM throttle body, BBK SSI Intake, underdrive pulleys, std water pump, 19lb injectors, pretty much stock everything else, backed up by T-5Z.

Not looking for big numbers, my current is an '86 bone stock motor.

Doing the job in the next week or two w/Mike Everson's help. Anything else I should consider while the patient is on the table?

Thanks

[Gordon Levy]

About 285hp.

[DavidT]

Hi Gordon,

I spoke with you the other day about my current set-up and we discussed upgrades.

Currently:
Freshly rebuilt 302 (93 donor, EFI) with ported stock heads, E303 cam, and is basically stock elsewhere aside from underdrive pullies, FFR filter, and shorty headers.

Planned upgrades include Edelbrock Performer heads & intake, 24# injectors, 70mm throttle body, 75mm MAF, and bigger fuel pump.

I have couple questions:

a) Would there be any advantage/disadvantage, power-wise, using a Mass-Flo system as opposed to the Edlebrock EFI intake?

and,

b) While I'm saving up for these items (which may take awhile) should I be concerned about it running too lean on 19# injectors and stock EFI components?

It runs quite well, but it has a small bit of hestitation at times and sometimes the idle has a hard time smoothing out (irratic), but it always does. These problems appear minimal, but what do I know? I've always been an import guy so this is all new too me.

The FFR assembly manual mentions adding a 65mm TB and a "Cobra" kit (70mm MAF, 24# injectors, and a Cobra computer [different fuel curves]). These items are no longer available from Ford as a kit, but PAW sells it: #FOR-M9000C52. Would I benefit from something like this in the meantime? Or, would I be throwing my money away?

Thanks again,

David -

[sanibel cobra]

306 EFI with B303 cam, gt40 heads and Cobra intake. Much extra HP from this combo over stock? Thanks.

[sanibel cobra]

Here's the engine I think I will be using. Any guesses as to HP? Thanks.
D.S.S. 306 Short Block Pro Bullet Racing Engine
Level 10 Block
Pro-X Forged Pistons
Forged & Polished I-Beam Rods
B-303 Camshaft
GT40P HEADS
1.72 ROLLER ROCKERS
COBRA UPPER AND LOWER INTAKE MANIFOLD
24LB INJECTORS
65MM THROTTLE BODY
73MM MAF

[Gordon Levy]

David, A) I think it would make more power than the ford style EFI
B) 19# are fine on stock or ported stock heads. The hesitaion sounds like a tuning issue. Please check what your fuel pressure is as well as timing. You also may wound to change the plugs or double check the gaps.
John C 1- about 320hp with the proper matching finish components.
John C 2- 325 hp. You are making a better short block then using the same components in the upper. You power level isn't going to change much but the strenth is better. The heads you are proposing is the biggest problem followed by the intake and cam. There are much better components to use. The package can be capable of around 390 or so hp with the proper components.

[sanibel cobra]

Gordon-
Thanks for the info. This is a deal on a low mile used engine. I figure the lower end stuff is where the hard and expensive part is and I can swap out the upper end (cam/heads/intake, etc)with relative ease if I want/need more power.

Thanks again for providing this service.

[MDippold]

Hey All! As you can see from my number of posts, I've started the game late, and I've been away for awhile enjoying my Harley.

Mr. Levy, If you would please:

420 ci stroker
AFR 185's
Comp Cams Extreme Energy 282 Hydraulic Flat Tappet
Performer RPM Intake
Speed Demon 650 cfm

I'm wanting low end torque for the street. Will rarely see the strip or 6,000 rpm's.

Thanks,
Matt

[Gordon Levy]

Matt, you are really killing your power level with some of these parts. It will make around 440hp and your torque would be about 500 or so. This would be a nice package for a very heavy car but not a roadster. In my opinion low end torque is not your friend of you want a very drivable 90" wheelbase car.
Please don't just take the heads out of the box and bolt them on. Have a good machinist double check the spring clearances and spring pressures before installing them.

[MDippold]

Gordon-

Thanks for the reply, and yes I thought it did seem a little overboard. I just thought these up.

So why do people want to shoehorn big blocks with gobs of low-end torque into a 2,200 lb. car if it's so difficult to hook?

When I pound the floor, I want to strain my neck muscles, but I don't want to end up in the trees along the roadway because the tires jsut broke loose at 60 mph.

Any suggestions from anybody? How much power is too much power?

Thanks,
Matt

[Calvin]

Okay, Gordon; here goes...

1993 GT 302 donor motor
Cobra intake
PowerHeads (1.90 x 1.6 valves)
1.7 roller rockers
E-cam
19 lb. injectors
65mm throttle body
73mm MAF

[Gordon Levy]

Calvin, about 300hp

[Calvin]

Thanks, Gordon. On the above set-up; what fuel pressure would you run?

[Rusty_S]

I dont know about the setup I am planning on going with. But would like to know a good estimate on power output. Btw this will be a street driven car that I would hopefully like to track a few times.

351W
EFI Stack, eight 50mm throttle bodies (from www.verycoolparts.com)
Redline Weber Carburetor Fuel and Spark Control System
balanced and blueprinted rotating assembly and engine
Ford Racing GT40 Aluminum Heads (1.94"/1.54" valves, 178cc/62cc ports)
9.0:1 to 9.5:1 Compression
Pete Jackson Dual Idler gear drive
Gapless Piston rings, Plasma-moly (street/strip)
Ford Racing High FLow FUel Injectors, 30lbs/hr
Aeromotive A1000 Fuel pump, 90 PSI, 600 lbs/hr free flow and correct bypass regulator
Mallor Aftermarket Fuel Injection Distributor, Hall Effect

Camshaft is between Three
1. Choppy, 219*/233* @ 0.050", 0.507"/0.542" lift, 110* (2000-6000 rpm) Hyd Flat (Comp Cams Dual Energy)
2. Rough, 230*/236* @ 0.050", 0.545"/0.562" lift, 110* (2000-6000 rpm) Hyd Roller (Comp Cams Xtreme Energy)
3. Rough, 235*/249* @ 0.050", 0.541"/0.526" lift, 107* (2200-5900 rpm) Hyd Roller (Comp Cams Mutha Thumpr)

[Gordon Levy]

Calvin, 41psi

Rusty, I don't see more than 400hp using those heads. If you went with something larger like a Performer RPM you can see as much as 440hp.

[Rusty_S]

I was shooting for 350 - 400 hp. Dont think 400+ hp would be smart in such a light vehicle. What about World Products Windsor Sr. Heads, supposedly they have 200 cc intake port and 2.02"/1.60" valves, are these heads any better than the GT40 aluminum heads?

[Gordon Levy]

The world heads would be better than the GT40's.

[Rusty_S]

The world heads would be better than the GT40's.

AH ok. I was thinking the GT40 heads would be better cause I planned on the World heads on my daily driver and alot of people were telling me that 2.02" valves were too big for a street engine. Ill have to see if i can find a simmilar head in aluminum if not then the World heads will be the ones I end up going with.

[Gordon Levy]

We are talking roadster here. Forget everything you are thinking about a regular performance street car. The roadster is 2400lbs wet and rear weight biased. A 400hp engine will propell you to 0-60 times right at 4 sec. 450hp can get that down to 3.6 in a daily driver configuration.
If you make good mid range torque and top end power using a 3:55 rear gear you will kill pretty much anything you come up against on the street.

[Tim Mckinley]

I need to say first is most of my guesses are just that based on what we have done with very simular engines in the past. I do have engine programs I can run this up on but it would take a couple of hours for each one. The numbers I give is estimated flywheel hp.
PSB, around 525hp/500 torque- You will pick up over 40hp if you went to a carb.
2370, I think your engine is capable of over 600hp with a carb. I believe the injection system is going to cost you some hp. Do some research on independent runner intakes and you will see what I mean.
Brick, 313 at the rears is equal to about 370 at the flywheel. Going to a different cam and a Victor Jr intake is going to help a lot. Maybe another 25-30hp or so. I also think you should use a 650 carb instead of the 750. It may cost you 5hp at the top but your throdle response will go way up.

Just wondering about the 40 more hp with a carb.... would this apply if im running a victor jr. intake and a 1000cfm throttle body on top?? (mass-flo)

[Gordon Levy]

Tim, I based that on a test we did with the same car on the same dyno a few days apart. We went from Ford style victor 5.0 EFI to a Victor Jr and holley 650 pro on a 347. WE did pick up 40hp and 35lbft of torque.
Using the mass-flo with the proper tune, I believe you can get real close to what a properly tuned carb could do. Probably close enough you would never fell the difference.

[Tim Mckinley]

So you think its possible to get the advertised 425 crank HP and 408 ft lbs. of torque from my set up ?? Thanks for your previous answer. Im always up for learning something.

[Gordon Levy]

It's possible but I need to know alot more about your engine, cam, heads, intake (which mass-flo), pistons, compression.

[Tim Mckinley]

Edelbrock performer RPM heads 2.02/1.60
Comp Xtreme Energy roller cam [XR282RF-HR] .513 .529 2000-6000 rpm
Victor Jr. intake
Mass-Flo EFI from Chris latest design I believe. 30 lb injectors and a 255lph intank pump
9.7:1 comp ratio and a 1000 cfm AVS Throttle Body
Also here in La porte I benefit from sea level I think it would help...

[johns427]

Hi Gordon: I'm building a Coast 427W with dished pistons, Crane Powermax Cam 216/228 @.050, .484/.512 lift, Edel. Performer (2.02) RPM heads, Holley 3310-750,174 Weiand supercharger overdriven 1.97:1 and approx. 4 lbs. of boost. Do you think this will be ok on pump gas? Horsepower? What is the most limiting factor, Heads?, cam?

We all thank you for your expertise.

John S.

[Slowhand]

Gordon,

How about:

Stock 5.0 lower end (306)
E303-cam
Kirban fuel pressure regulator
Twisted Wedge heads (170cc),
Twisted Flow Street Upper/Lower intake
1.7 roller rockers
70mm MAF and TB
24lb injectors
BBK 1 5/8 inch primary headers.

Thanks

[Rob Burton]

408 Dart Block, all forged rotating assembly, AFR 205 heads, 1.6 rockers, Mass-flo EFI with 42# injectors, MSD ignition, Comp Cams custom grind to deliver most power <6500 rpm?????

[Eric Page]

Gordon,

Great thread! Can I ask you the horsepower question in reverse?

I'd like to see ~400 fwhp. I want the engine to be very streetable, with good throttle response. It should run well on pump gas. The car will be a street vehicle, with perhaps one track event per year (just for fun, not competetive racing). I don't want the engine to be working at it's mechanical limits to reach my target numbers; solid reliability and ease of maintenance are important.

I plan to use either a TKO or one of your T-5's. I'm open to suggestions on OD and diff ratios (comfortable cruising is more important to me than ET). I'll be using 295/50-15 rears.

I've never been inside an engine in my life, but I'm desperate to learn, so I plan to build it myself (with the help of books, DVDs, and the great folks on this and other Cobra forums).

I'm not in love with any particular block type, displacement number or name brands, but budget is very important (most reputable ready-to-run crate engines are out of my reach). If I can save money by rebuilding a used engine, I'm all for it. I'm willing to spend some cash where it will make a significant difference in performance, strength or reliability, but not for gold-plated prestige parts.

Here are my questions:

1. Am I nuts to consider building this engine myself?

2. Given my goals, what engine type/displacement would you recommend for me?

3. What is a reasonable minimum budget for this build?

4. As my experience suggests, picking parts that will work together is a black art to me. What would you charge to develop a detailed parts list for me, from air cleaner to flywheel?

Thanks very much, Gordon.

Cheers,

-Eric

[aks801]

I'm still attracted to getting a BB engine, but could very easily see going SB. So, here goes:

347 stroker. Weber carbs. AFR185 heads. Comptetition Cam, with a fairly long duration (apparently a requirement for the Webers). No more specifics as of yet.

Appreciate whatever guesstimate you could provide. Also, what's your take on Webers?

[331sbf]

Goal is good road course performance with 8500 RPM capabilities

Dart Iron Eagle 8.2" deck
3.25" stroke Forged Crank, internal balance, straight through oiling
5.4" H beam rods
Flat top pistons, "0" decked with -5 cc valvel reliefs
AFR 205's 58cc chambers(I know you are not a fan, what else flows good out of the box?)
Solid roller Duration at 0.050" 265In 270Ex, lobe sep 106, Lift .694"IN .673"EX
Kinsler FI with 2.187" TB's, 32lbs/hr injectors
Accel DFI GenVII Sequential triggering injection
1.75" headers 421 patterned on Coupe headers

Trans TKO with 2.8 first and 355 gears

How much power and will it be drivable out of first or 2nd gear corners?

[Tim Mckinley]

Before Gordon answers I think you should go with a higher numerically rear end gear if your going to utilize all of your 8500 rpms... with lets say 26in tall tires your looking at

1st- 64 mph 2.87 ratio
2nd- 98 mph 1.89
3rd- 145 mph 1.28
4rth- 185 mph 1.00
5th- 226 mph .82 <---- assuming you go with this 5th ratio

Even with 4:10 diff gears with those rpms your still looking at deccent mph per gear...

(8500rpm) _____(8000rpm)
1st- 56 mph ___ 53 mph
2nd- 85 mph ___ 80 mph
3rd- 125 mph ___ 118 mph
4rth- 160 mph ___ 151 mph
5th- 195 mph ___ 184 mph

[331sbf]

Hi Tim,
I believe the engine will make max power some where between 7300 and 7600 RPM. So have set the gearing to give 200MPH at 7500RPM. Wether the engine makes enough power to pull 7500 in top in the coupe would be another question.

If I am shifting at 7500 the TKO give about 2500 RPM drops (give or take) from gear to gear. Hopefully with this cam I will be making good power from 4500 up to the 7500 point.

Cheers
David

[Eric Page]

Bump.

[Southern Roadster]

308 stock block, TFS Twisted Heads, Stage1 Cam, EDL-AVS 650, Performer Intake, MSD al6, 4 in 4 Sidepipes with vair backpressure, was on the Dyno, 300 German HP (not SAE, sae x 1,015 = Germ. HP) that means 305 SAE-HP at the wheel, my question ist about Timing this run was made with 38° Total timing, will 35°-36° be better, or what is the best timing for my setup.

Another issue: Between idl and 3200 rpm im missing HP's, i've the light blue and light silver springs in the distributor (MSD) that means full advanced at 2500rpm, will 2000 rpm better (2-light silver springs),
Initial ist 14°

And what can i also doe to find more hp.

THX an greatings from germany

[Gordon Levy]

I will answer everyone later today.

[aks801]

Great to see you with a post, Gordon. I hope that means things are much better for your old man. Thoughts of peace and comfort for you and your family.

[Gordon Levy]

Tim, About 340hp or so.

johns427, I think both the heads and cam are going to limit the engine a bit but that thing is going to be a torque brute. I'm guessing around 550hp about over 600lbft of torque.

Slowhand, about 340hp

Rob, without knowing the cam profile I think it will be 560/550.

Eric, 400fwhp is possible with a 306, mild 347 or mild 351. Torque goes up with each of these. Which one depends on how you want to use it. To answer your questions;
1) no but be very careful and get the help with someone that knows what they are doing. It's really easy to make a very expensive mistake.
2) See opening sentence.
3) For high quality parts and machining $4k-$5k
4) I can help with a package. I would be happy to sell you the parts needed.

AKS, webbers are a tuning nightmare for a street car. If you want that look, stack injection is a better option. A 347 can make mid to upper 4's at far as power on pump gas pretty easily. If you want, I can put together an engine or parts package for you.

331, you would be better off with a good I beam over a H beam. H beams are great for drag racing but not road racing. Road racing the I beam is better. You will need more injector, probably 42's or 50's. That cam is pretty mild, you can go a bit more aggressive. I'd say you will have 575hp at 7500 revs. I don't think that cam will support much more than that.
You will do better with a set of Trick Flow R heads or a set of worked Brodix Track 1's over the AFR's. Even worked I don't see the AFR's supporting over 7500 revs.
Your also going to want to run a 4:10 gear in the car. You aren't going to have the low end torque to make a 3:55 work.
Feel free to give me a call if you want to talk this over. I build a lot of high revving little engines that live.

Southern, Put the black 18 degree bushing in the dist and set your timing at 34 degrees total at 3000 revs. I think you mis is in the carb. I really feel if you went with a holley 650 and put a 2.5 power valve in it, it would run a lot better.

aks, thanks.

[edhunter]

Gordon; first, glad to hear your dad is doing better... second, when you've got time...
Accumulating parts for another engine... this one is destined for a 1974 road race Datsun 260Z, an old ITS car... decided the cobra was too nice for the track! Plan/parts so far - low mile Ford crate 302 shortblock, pistons notched for larger valves - these engines came with the X heads originally I think from Ford. Heads are machined 61cc AFR 185s' with new valves& springs, currently setup for a solid roller, will probably switch to hydr.roller as I dont plan to spin over 6500 rpms. Vic Jr intake, 650 double pumper carb. MSD distributor, Crane Hi6 box/coil. Haven't decided on a cam yet, thinking either one of the high lift XE cams from compcams, or the trickflow stage 3 cam, or a custom - the shortblocks got a B303 but will switch. Don't want alot of low rpm torque, as I don't want to twist the rear out of this little car, or break the tires loose too easily. Car will be for road course only, no papers on it... Rear is a 3:70lsd, will probably start with a stock T5, then get another of your SDT5's if it goes... Figure wet wt around 2400lbs...
HP/torque guestimates, cam suggestions??
ed

[Eric Page]

Eric, 400fwhp is possible with a 306, mild 347 or mild 351. Torque goes up with each of these. Which one depends on how you want to use it. To answer your questions;
1) no but be very careful and get the help with someone that knows what they are doing. It's really easy to make a very expensive mistake.
2) See opening sentence.
3) For high quality parts and machining $4k-$5k
4) I can help with a package. I would be happy to sell you the parts needed.
Gordon, thanks for your very helpful reply.

If that $5k build you mentioned is for a complete, ready-to-run engine with accessories, you're a miracle-worker! I priced out a 347 using parts from Summit and Jegs, using the cheapest option for many of the pieces, and it exceeded $8k. Either I'm missing something or you're not making any money on the retail parts side of your business! You must be quoting a long-block...?

I've read some stuff about oil control and rod angle/piston slap issues with the 347. Is there any truth to that, or have those problems been resolved?

I'd prefer an engine that isn't working hard too reach 400hp, in the interest of reliability and longevity. Is it safe to say the 347 or 351 would be better options? Is a 408 overkill?

Thanks again, Gordon. When I get ready to start building, I'll be in touch.

I hope your Dad's doing well and on the road to a strong recovery.

-Eric

[Gordon Levy]

Eric, this is if you build it yourself.

core 5.0 block $125
Machinework 1000 +or-
347 rotating assy 1000 +or-
Victor Jr heads 1399
cam 295
lifter 149
spider 69
timing chain 49
oil pump 45
gaskets 100
intake 289
valve covers 80
rockers 295
flywheel 239
------------------------
$5134

You can save some money but horse trading or finding a deal on parts but don't use "cheap" parts.

[Tim Mckinley]

Not to undermine your knowledge but im willing to bet I make abit more than 340 horsepower with my set up. Gonna take it to a dyno to find out. Seems like most of your estimates seem right for most of these engines but looking at others examples mine just seems off. Then again I have no experience with this.

[Gordon Levy]

Tim, sorry about that. I had 302 rattling around in my head. I believe your's will be around 375hp with really good torque numbers.

[Tim Mckinley]

sounds better ! Again I meant no disrespect and with good torque numbers that will work good with my 3.08 gears! :)

[Eric Page]

Eric, this is if you build it yourself.

$5134

You can save some money but horse trading or finding a deal on parts but don't use "cheap" parts.
OK, I see where our estimates differ. You're pricing a longblock and I'm pricing a turn-key engine. Also, I had higher prices for the block and rotating assembly. My $8k total price included:

cam/main/rod bearings
main girdle
oil pan
distributor & coil
ignition wires
spark plugs
carburetor
air cleaner
fuel pump & line
water pump
water neck
alternator & brackets
pulleys & belt
ARP bolt kits
clutch kit
bellhousing
starter
????

I guess there's no way around it: this is a really expensive hobby! :D I'm just amazed that I can't seem to build a complete engine myself without spending more than the cost of a pro-built crate motor.

[wholesale parts + pro labor] < [retail parts + my (free) labor]???

Thanks again, Gordon.

-Eric

[trevor]

Eric,

You have to take into account that the engine could fail if you build it yourself. There is a lot of little details that make an engine last. Its not as easy as following a "how to" book.
Once, I spun a rod bearing in my jeep. I had the crank turned and replaced the main bearings, oil pump and the 1 conn rod - absolute bare minimum. The engine ran for another 30000 miles to my surprise. Didnt clean anything, didnt tear it down and check anything etc. I also did a simple bearing refresh on my old mustang, it only lasted 10000 more miles before the pressure dropped again. There is a lot of knowledge and experience to build an engine that will last. THe cheap way is to buy a low mileage donor engine and put a RPM manifold, explorer GT40P heads, 650 DP and 4 into 4 headers. Youll have more than enough power. A couple years later buy a 450ish hp 347 stroker turn key motor from Ford Racing or Levy, and the car will be even more fun!

[hind sight]

Eric it's not only the cost of the parts,but cost of labor. Unless you have the ability to do most of the machineing needed. Many times it cost the same or less to have the engine assembled by a pro. Not so much the labor charged for assembly. Machineing is the greatest expence along with all the presision tools that go with it. This and Fords just cost more compared to another brand like Cheby motors. Parts are higher.
Another consideration like Trev mentioned is non stock build. The more the engine is mod'ed to make more power. More strain is placed on it. This means everything needs to be spot on.
all tolerences need to be exact and not the normal + or- that a stock rebuid would use.
Every part needs to be measured and fit and clearenced. Can also run into some unique problems along the way that can't easily be corrected in the home shop with regular tools.
At best if assembling yourself. Buy a long block or short block that has already been clearenced and has all the tolerence's pre set so no surprise's once you start the job:)

[Eric Page]

Trevor and Hind Sight -- Thanks for the advice.

I'm beginning to see that building your own engine is fine if that's what you like doing and especially if you know what you're doing. For someone like me, who's never been inside an engine in his life, it really looks like the more sensible solution is a crate motor. No chance of making a mistake that could grenade $5k worth of parts, plus the apparent cost savings.

Thanks again, everyone.

-Eric

[Gordon Levy]

Eric, if you would like to talk about a good engine package for you. Please feel free to give me a call at 520-494-2745.

[steno]

Hi Gordon,
With my 1st season at a close,I'd like to bring my '93 donor engine up to about 300 hp.With a budget in mind,what would be the best and dependable way to do that?
Thank you in advance,
Sten

[Gordon Levy]

Assuming it is stock, you can ether add a supercharger or cam, heads and intake. The supercharger will probably cost less.

[Tifford]

351W stroked to 408 with 30over
CRANKSHAFT: Summit Cast
PISTONS: JE Pistons, #JEP-131656-6, inverted dome, yeilding 10.23 to 1 with 68cc head
Cam- FEM-1204M
CAMSHAFT: Crane Retrofit Hydraulic Roler#CRN-449761, Specs are 232degree intake, 244 degree exhaust duration at .050 gross valve lift at .563 intake, .595 exhaust
RETROFIT HYDRAULIC ROLLER CAM INSTALLATION KIT
CYLINDER HEADS: Brodix Tack I Ford, 68cc Combustions chamber, w/1.550 dia flat tappet spring
PUSHRODS: Use a single pushrod length checker, CCA-77031
INTAKE MANIFOLD: Edelbrock Victor Jr.
CARBURETOR: Holley 750 CFM mechanical secondary double pump
DISTRIBUTOR: MSDBillit MSD
SPARK PLUG WIRES: MSD SuperConductor 8.5mm MSD
J pipe and not the 4 into 4 headers

[Gordon Levy]

Tif, I don't know if it will run with the J pipes. The 4 into 4's are barely enough.

With the exhaust the way it is, probably 475hp and 500lbft of torque. Put a good exhaust on it and I see over 535/540.

[Tifford]

Thanks Gordon. That will be my very next upgrade.

[Canuck Coupe]

Hello Gordon,

I'd appreciate your opinion.

I'm aiming for 280-300HP for a non-spec Challenge car to go road racing. Don't want gobs of power. I want to be able to mash it out of corners without having to modulate gas for fear of spinning off into the woods. Stock motor with 275 tires allows this. If I run 315s, I figure I can add 50 or 60HP without a problem.

I already have the following, cobbled together from the forum:

'87 302
bored 30 over
Probe forged notched pistons
75mm MAF
70mm TB
Explorer upper and lower

Was considering the following:
GT40X
B303

Looks like that would give me about 320HP. That's at least 20 more than I want.
So I'm reconsidering the heads and cam.

Would a cam change and stock heads (I'd upgrade the spings at minimum) give me 280? Can you suggest a Comp cam? I know you don't like the letter cams. I was only considering the E and B to keep power down. If I don't change the heads, I will use any cam that suits the purpose.

How about head change with stock cam (more expensive by far)?

Thanks!

[cdamsch]

OK, I'm looking to Join in the fun.

[2001accord]

reading all these posts got me, i will play along.

545 ci 460 Dive block
Torker II intake (wish there was more room for something else)
Alum SCJ heads (mild port work)
10.5:1 comp
FRPP rockers
251/256@ .050 hyd flat tap 625ish both sides
110 LSA
850 bg carb mech secondaries (probably choke the engine up top but trying to retain some mpg's if there ever such a thing ;) )
Scat rotating asmbly
Mcleod Alum flywheel Twin disk (good for another 100hp!! :) haha j/k but should rev like a SOB

[tony stamis]

Gordon ,i was wondering an older 2 piece main seal motor 351 w are there differences in the deck heights with newer blocks and are the older blocks stronger . i had i believe a 1969 block and bought a stroker kit eagle 408 everything forged, the local engine builder after he preped the block bored etc. said the deck was to short. is this common.
thanks tony

[cobramd]

Cool thread I'm suprised I haven't seen it earlier.
How about this combo. I just got it running on Sunday I still need to break it in before I head to the dyno
331 boss block
8.5:1 compression
Scatt 9000 series crank/Hbeams
E-cam
1:1.7 rollers
Edelbrock performer heads
Cobra intake/ported lower manifold
Vortec S-trim 14# pulleys
Snow stage 2 Boost Cooler
4 into 4 headers
SCT Chip

[Gordon Levy]

Philip, I answered in ask Gordon
cda, I think you are at 535hp and a little over 550 in torque. I could see a little more power up top with a Super Victor intake but not much.
2001, That intake is absolutely killing you. I see probably 580hp and well over 650lbft of torque. I believe a Victor Sr intake and a dominator carb could be worth up to 150 hp.
Tony, yes this is somewhat common. The early blocks had a 9.485 deck compared to an actual 9.5 that later blocks use. I have never really had an issue and prefer using earlier blocks.
cobramd- with the blower and a good tune is should be capable if 600hp and 540lbft of torque. Using a pump gas tune though I think you would be loosing probably 70 potential hp.

[DalMor]

Gordon - I tried reading, the first 4 pages ! so here is what I did.

1990 5.0 - new bearings/rings ( motor had 38K )
Trick flow twisted O-ring Heads -
Trick Flow Street intake
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Harland 1.6 Rockers
FMS 65mm TB
FMS 24 lb inj
Pro M 75mm MAF
MAC Underdrive pullies
FFR Full length tube headers & pipes

No smog /AC/ or power steering - .

Who do you suggest for a custom chip ( 9AL Comp )
I have the Stock Ignition - replace that with ?
If I add a S trim Vortech later - what can I expect ?
Will I have to get ANOTHER custom chip made ?

Thanks for the help !

[Gordon Levy]

To answer your questions;
350HP NA
Don't do a chip until you add the blower
MSD
440hp with 8psi blower
Do the chip at this time but a good dyno guy that can burn the chips there.

[mcglsr2]

Gordon, thanks in advance for doing this!

Thinking about the following engine in a coupe:
- 302 DART sportsman iron block
- TFS Track Heat intake lower and upper
- AFS 185 heads, 2.020"/1.600"
- CompCams 5.0 Blower 276HR
220/224, 0.544/0.560 @ 1.6:1, 114 separation
- CompCams Ultra Gold Alum 1.6:1 rockers
- 70mm TB
- Probe SRS forged, shooting for ~8.5:1 to 8.1:1 total compression
- AEM engine (and boost) management
- with ps, a/c

i'm looking to keep the rpm's around 6k. what will the hp/tq be NA? about where do you think the tq will hit?

also, i plan on using forced induction (and intercooled), up to 15psi or so on pump gas (93). what do you think hp/tq would be? where do you think the car will start to die off, before 6k?

i'm open to suggestions! Much appreciated!

Scott

[tony stamis]

Gordon i have a few questions about my set up,
351w .030 over
408 eagle stroker kit
forged crank& H-beam rods
srp forged pistons
compession 10:1
victor jr. heads out of box
trick flow stage 3 cam 574/595 i think
crane hyd roller lifter
trickflow 1.7 roller rockers
ported airgap manifold
850 demon carb
its in the coupe i tried to keep the hood clearance down but i have to cut the hood anyway.
is the intake to restrictive and are the roller rocker 1.7 to much ratio what kind of power do you think it will make and changes you see worth making thank you for your help.

thank you tony

[mcglsr2]

bump

[joey_hv]

how about a stock 390 straight off a 1965 Thunderbird with only 55k original miles...?
plus I throw another $500 bucks in bolt on aftermarket parts.
what parts?
how much HP can I expect?
take your time...

[bswen]

Hey Gordon, hows Phx, getting pretty hot there yet? I dont miss that :)

Motor:

347 CHP shortblock
10.4 compression
TFS Stage 2 Camshaft (224/232 @50, .542/.563)
Trick Flow heads, converted pedestal mounts - exhaust ported
good quality roller rockers 1.6
victor Jr intake
650 holly DP - mechanical secondaries
MSD distributor/ignition - mechanical advance
28oz balancing

whatcha' think ? im guessing about 430hp, 410tq at the crank.

[RET_COP]

OK Gordon, new owner here, how about this which right now is all the information I can gather from B&B. 351w, WorldProducts windsor SR. fully ported heads, CompCams Flat hydraulic .560/.540 298/288 advertised duration, 110 centerline, 10.5:1 compression, Edlebrock performer RPM, Road Demon 750 VS, MSD6A, CompCams roller rockers 1.6
Thanks
Lou

[Cougar]

Gordon,
Another thanks to you for so generously sharing your expertise.
The 347 listed in my signature was built by Karl's East Coast Speed in RI, and I am told produces 390 hp. How much would I lose if I replaced the Vic Jr with an Performer RPM air-gap? and would this give the little motor the same superb drivability that my slightly milder 392 has? Thanks again!
Peter

[Gordon Levy]

With those head and faily mild cam I don't think you would loose much at all if anything. You will pick up some low end and probably some drivability.
Having a great tune on the carb will also help alot.

[ddv005]

94 roller block rotating assembly balanced

(30 over) TRW 13.20cc dish forged pistons 8.2 to 1 comp
forged I beam rods
Stock 351 Crank
Pro Comp 200cc heads with 2.05 intake valves 60cc chamber
lunati roller cam 220/220 281/281 512/512 106 114
Edelbrock vic jr intake
holley 4779 carb built for blow thru by CSU with ATI bonnet
Precision PT76GTS Turbo @ 10-12 PSI
31x12x3 Front Mount Intercooler

[Gordon Levy]

that engine NA would be around 430hp. With the turbo's at 12psi it would be around 600-650.

[ddv005]

that engine NA would be around 430hp. With the turbo's at 12psi it would be around 600-650.

Great, that's what i was shooting for ;)

[Stinson Pilot]

Gordon, thought I had already posted on this one before. Here's what I've got:

99' Explorer 5.0
GT40P Heads
Roller Rockers
Edelbrock Performer Air Gap manifold
Edelbrock AVS Thunder 650 Carb
Stock Mustang cam
Shorty Headers
J Pipes
Procomp HEI Distributor

Tremec 3350 Tranny
IRS 3.27

This combo is running pretty strong. Are you quoting FWHP or RWHP?

Thanks for your support and have a Happy New Year!

[Gordon Levy]

About 280-300hp fwhp

[Butch B]

Gordon,
306cu in.
9.8 cr
Edle EFI RPM 2 intake
TF TW Heads
TF Stage 2 cam
24 lbs. inj.
1.6 RR
70mm.TB
80mm MAF
Underdrive pullies
Cold air setup
No smog/ac/ps.ect

Thanks a bunch & Happy New Year
Butch

[Gordon Levy]

340-350

[djharr]

Gordon, how about this:

A bored and stroked 347 with a set of ported Twisted Wedge heads and roller rockers. On top of that, I have Wayne's VCP stack injection system. Currently have an F303 cam, but am thinking about swapping it out for a slightly more aggressive Comp Cams number.

David

[MPTech]

93 Mustang Roller 302
GT-40P ported heads
FMS F-cam
Explorer intake (65mm)
24lb injectors + Pro-m meter calibrated for 24s
Ford racing wires + new plugs
distributor +MSD cap and rotor
4 into 4 headers



would anything else help?

[BigLeo69]

93 Mustang Roller 302
GT-40P ported heads
FMS F-cam
Explorer intake (65mm)
24lb injectors + Pro-m meter calibrated for 24s
Ford racing wires + new plugs
distributor +MSD cap and rotor
4 into 4 headers



would anything else help?

seems to be someone recieved their engine:drool:
i'd guess but its not my thread:biggrinking:

[Gordon Levy]

David, about 400hp

MP, around 330hp

[BigLeo69]

damn Mark i was going to say 325 at the FW
okay Gordon my turn
372w stroker/10.5:1 plus
3.640 stroke
6.2 scat rods
cast crank(stock) off set ground
Keith black pistons flat-tops KB-254 Hyper..030 over-bore
0-decked @ .004 under
RHS 200 cc heads 1.6 ratio scorpion rockers. hyd. flat-tappet
Comp cam XE268H-10/gear drive
RPM air gap w/a 700 Holley DP mech sec.
ford racing bullet FW
ford racing dampner and rotating assembly balanced

Sorry, Gordon couldn't do the roller rockers but i am changing the heads to RHS pro-action aluminum

[MPTech]

Thanks Gordon!

Geeeeeez BL, ain't nothing stock about that setup!
Let me know when you're ready to fire it up! I REALLY want to see that! :w00t:

[stephenwagoner]

302 V8, stock roller cam with 1:7 to 1 roller rockers; EFI Explorer Intake with 3/4" phenolic spacer; MAC headers/J-pipes/ceramic side pipes; Blue Oval alum. heads milled to give 10:1 compression (58 cc); Mass Airflow sensor from Chris Richards (Mass Power?); 24 lb. fuel injectors; stock pistons (forged '91 Mustang GT); cylinders honed only; 65 mm Throttle Body. Also, while I have your ear, is the VENOM 400 Performance Control Module (Summit) a good idea on this engine (cost is $300). Thanks. -- Steve

[Friar Tuck]

Ford racing "Boss" 427w
10.4:1 compression ratio (nominal)
Forged Mahle® pistons
SCAT® forged steel H-beam connecting rods
Hydraulic roller camshaft
Intake duration 294° @ .006" lift 242° @ .050" intake
Exhaust duration 300° @ .006" lift 248° @ .050" exhaust
Valve lift intake .576"
Valve lift exhaust .600"
Double Roller Timing Chain M-6268-B302
SCAT® forged steel crankshaft
Ford Racing 4-bolt Main Block M-6010-BOSS35195
Ford Racing Aluminum “Z” Cylinder Heads M-6049-Z304DA with 2.02"intake valves and 1.60" exhaust valves
Roller Rocker Arms (1.65:1 ratio) M-6564-F351
Holley 750 carb ('dunno which one yet)



Vic junior intake

vs same with Performer RPM dual plane intake?

vs with Mass Flo injection

[Spacehound]

Hello, Gordon.
Try this one; I've been wondering myself, since I haven't been able to do a dyno run yet.

331 cid Windsor: 1986 5.0 truck block decked to 8.190", bored .030 over w/Scat crank and 5.4" rods; 10:1 flat-top pistons but probably running closer to 9.25:1 compression with the 72cc combustion chambers; Comp Cams 35-310-8 Hydraulic Roller - 215/220 duration at 0.050 inch lift, 110 degree intake center line with 114 degree lobe separation;.533/.544 lift with 1.6:1 roller rockers; Roush/AFR CNC ported heads with 185cc intake runners, 72cc chambers, and 2.02/1.60 valves (part number 1430); 650 CFM Holley on an Edlebrock Air-Gap RPM. Headers will be the FFR pipes for the Coupe. The only accessories are the altenator and Ford Racing High flow water pump

[BigLeo69]

damn Mark i was going to say 325 at the FW
okay Gordon my turn
372w stroker/10.5:1 plus
3.640 stroke
6.2 scat rods
cast crank(stock) off set ground
Keith black pistons flat-tops KB-254 Hyper..030 over-bore
0-decked @ .004 under
RHS 200 cc heads 1.6 ratio scorpion rockers. hyd. flat-tappet
Comp cam XE268H-10/gear drive
RPM air gap w/a 700 Holley DP mech sec.
ford racing bullet FW
ford racing dampner and rotating assembly balanced

Sorry, Gordon couldn't do the roller cam but i am changing the heads to RHS pro-action aluminum


ANY BODY OUT THERE:icon18:
next we looking for the tranny mmmmmmmmmmmmmtko600

[Gordon Levy]

Busy week. I promise I will get to everyone on Monday.

[Spacehound]

Busy week. I promise I will get to everyone on Monday.

Not to worry, Gordon. Thanks for all you do for us.

Here's a few pics for you guys, of my baby dragon.

[mcwho]

Great Thread...I am paying attention as I don't know how much poswer I need probably 340~400. I am stuck on the wall between all the 302-351 options.

[Gordon Levy]

Big, you are going to in the upper 4's with pretty close to the same on torque. You can move that around a littl with different intakes or carbs.

Stephan- about 280hp

Friar- 530hp with the Victor Jr. I beleive you can gain all the way through the power band by using a Super Victor. The Performer RPM is going to cost you up top by 25 or so HP but you will gain it at the bottom. Not necessarily where you want it in a 2400 car with a 90" wheel base.

Space, that's a solid 400hp package.

Mcwho, give me a call and we can talk aver what might work best for you. I have some very good packages that fall into the power level you are looking for.

[BigLeo69]

interesting Gordon, i was looking for torque and hp to be close to each other
figured i would be near 380 but upper 4's ouch:evil:
time to get some spare treads:001_rolleyes:
hope to plant some tread this mid-summer Leo:fire:

[marklombard]

FYI, from my big block build:

• 460 cubic inch Cobra Jet crate engine from Ultimate Garage in Rockville, MD (taken from another project, engine has 180 lbs. minimum compression in each cylinder and 75 lbs. cold oil pressure)
• Chassis dyno tuned at Maryland Performance Center in Frederick, MD
• 351 actual measured rear wheel horsepower (approximately 440 flywheel horsepower) and 396 ft-lbs of torque with mild aftermarket cam
• 160 amp chrome alternator
• Polished aluminum Torker II manifold
• MSD Digital 6-plus Ignition Control (Part #6520)
• MSD Billet distributor (Part #8580)
• Quick Fuel Technology carburetor
• Canton windage tray

[Gordon Levy]

Big, eveything shanged where you decided to put heads on the engine. I know when we originally talked you were going to stock or p heads or something like that.

Mark, I need a lot more info to guess at numbers such as carb, cam and it it basically the same of the Ford crate version.

[Spacehound]

Very good of you to do this for us all, Gordon.
Thanks.

[BigLeo69]

Big, eveything shanged where you decided to put heads on the engine. I know when we originally talked you were going to stock or p heads or something like that.

Mark, I need a lot more info to guess at numbers such as carb, cam and it it basically the same of the Ford crate version.

i went for more broke and changed my heads and upped the carb 50 cfm
for a little more top-end. big brother argued that i should stay with a 650 but brothers aren't always right:Deven though most of the time he is:devil2:
got a good price on the heads but been waiting for almost 4 weeks to assemble them. the high 4's thought i would be near 380
469hp and torque would fit the bill