Muffler testing.

[turbodon]

Finally I got the mufflers installed.

Dyno run before and after. Only changed side pipes.

Red line is the old twin side pipes.
Blue is the New side pipe...

The new side pipe is 90db at idle the old twins were 100.
On the freeway, the old pipes were 109db.
The new side pipe is 107db.

The note is lower and not as sharp but still load on Freeway.

But look at the HP change. Look at the Torque.

[crossle45f33cf]

Don

The performance difference is remarkable! Very impressive.

Any chance you could do a video clip with sound?

Personally, I like the look of the single side pipe better, too. The stainless steel is icing on the cake.

It's all good. Nicely done!

[EFNFAST]

Wowza, that's a pretty big jump for just changing sidepipes.

What is the primary difference between your sidepipe and the FFR one to account for such a change? Better free-flowing? Bigger? (not very familiar with the coupe setup)

[FredK]

Wow, I sure hope Ben doesn't see this thread.
FredK

[twan374]

Interesting.

[Grembler2]

ok im ready for a set

[Grembler2]

Originally Posted by EFNFAST

Wowza, that's a pretty big jump for just changing sidepipes.

What is the primary difference between your sidepipe and the FFR one to account for such a change? Better free-flowing? Bigger? (not very familiar with the coupe setup)

the problem with the ffr pipes is the scavenging. having 4 cylinders out of one pipe helps draw the next intake cycle into the cylinder. drag racers time the pulses to get everything they can out of it. exhaust science is way over my head, try doing a search on "header exhaust design"

here is a link to the basics: http://www.headerdesign.com/extras/design.asp

[RobbieD]

Ok... How much??

Rob

[turbodon]

How much?

I am not selling them. I can tell ya what parts I bought. Then you have to goto a fabricator and have them build them in.

Alot.... Like everything on these Coupes....

The sound is better. The sharp pulsing is gone more like roadster now...

I also saved about 25lbs or so in weight.

Anyone want to buy a set of ceramic coated sidepipes? They will work great for a stock 302.. Not a 408..

[Brian Palmer]

Nice work Don. Congratulations on the success of your effort and for being so open and clear with the results.

Brian

[1cobra]

Hi,
With 109 DB you have a healthy cam,probably not noise legal around here, I know the dragstrip only wants 95 DB max for friday night street drags or they kick you out.
We tested a bunch of roadster sidepipes to meet the noise requirements.
A 514 big block lost 80 hp with stock sidepipes but a 302 only lost 25 hp with the same pipes so it depends on your cubic inch and cam/rmp range.
My 460 cobra was at 92 DB and we were deaf for 2 days after coming 900 miles back from Reno.
I will sacrafice 2 or 3 tenths performance for some hearing nowadays. I'm using a midrange cam with less overlap on my daytona to tone down the noise.
Perry.

[John Dol]

Nice look Don,

Sure like the HP/torque increase! Must have taken some time fitting everything. Awesome end rsult though. Congrats.

John

[stevemcwilliams]

Jus Bit had the same issue with his 408 with the twin side pipes. I believe he lost about 90 HP as compared with a set of Roadster pipes he installed. I have installed a pair of Hushmaster II mufflers with a set of custom y connectors I purchased from Burns.

I have not dyno'd the engine (392 ford 430 hp) but seat of the pants it would run about the same as my 06 Viper Coupe where as before it struggled against my 03 SVT cobra. It also helped with the heating problem with the engine.

The FFR pipes choke off the engine.

FYI

[Grembler2]

Don,

I would like to know what parts you did use.........

[Fluge]

Don

The look of the single pipe is growing on me.

Do you have a picture of the car from a distance?

I am also interested in the parts that went into making them. I have a fabricator that could make me a set.

Marc

[Detroit Kim]

Thats massive !
Shame that the sound didn't come down more.
But wow, what a performance jump.
Great work.
Now to see if I can re-model the twins to look like twins but to scavenge all 4 pipes into one then bake into 2 for exit.
Kim

[Rob Burton]

Don,
I would love to have your parts list for these.

Rob

Originally Posted by turbodon

How much?

I am not selling them. I can tell ya what parts I bought. Then you have to goto a fabricator and have them build them in.

Alot.... Like everything on these Coupes....

The sound is better. The sharp pulsing is gone more like roadster now...

I also saved about 25lbs or so in weight.

Anyone want to buy a set of ceramic coated sidepipes? They will work great for a stock 302.. Not a 408..

[Ken Stroh]

One interesting aspect of your dyno results is that you found a noticeable effect even at relatively low RPM, indicating a loss to be overcome even at low exhaust velocity.... Thanks for posting. Now I have to consider more expense and time.... Damn this forum (just kidding)!

Ken

[TStack62]

Originally Posted by Detroit Kim

Now to see if I can re-model the twins to look like twins but to scavenge all 4 pipes into one then bake into 2 for exit.
Kim

New headers?

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by Rob Burton

Don,
I would love to have your parts list for these.

Rob

I think this is what he used.

http://www.burnsstainless.com/Ultral...temuffler.html

Looks like $250-300 each for the mufflers alone.

[MichaelWhaley]

That is pretty impressive and they look nice too.

[turbodon]

Parts List:

[Collector Assembly]
MC2-200-16-304 (Merge collector 2:1, 16g 304ss, 2" to 2.5" od 2.5" centerline spacing.) X2 $150 each

RD-250-16-304-S (Short transition 304 16g 2.5" to 3") x2 $48.95 each

[Muffler assembly]
Custom Muffler
SM-300-450-31 2-stage (no slits on inlet) x2 $495 each

LB-300-30-16-304 3" O.D. 3x6 legs x2 $53.83 each

Baloney cut tailpipe 3" OD from above for rear turn downs. x2 $25 each

Weld Turn downs on Muffler x2 $25 each

LB-300-30-16-304 3" O.D. 3x6 legs x1 $53.83 each (to be cut as needed by fabricator to attach collector)

LB-200-20-16-403 Stainless elbow x1 $55 each

Fabricator makes rear bracket etc.

[Grembler2]

Don,

Thank you very much for posting the parts.

Eric

[Clark Creswell]

Don; Will you post your parts list.

Cheers

[turbodon]

Clark

Look two posts up from yours.

[Detroit Kim]

Tstack 62, They will definitely part of the equation.

[Clark Creswell]

Originally Posted by turbodon

Clark

Look two posts up from yours.

DuH!!!!!

[Mark Reid]

There is a way to use the FFR side pipes and have every cylinder use all four pipes and have a much quieter ride. That's the problem with the FFR set up, two cylinders share only one pipe! It is very restrictive for a big breather.

[richard nyberg]

Sorry...no intention to hijack but Mark didnt someone a while back bridge and connect to two FFR sidepipes??? Curious how that might compare. Not likely to yield the gains seen here !!!! Them are big numbers.

[Ken Stroh]

Along the lines of Mark's suggestion, I'm going to at least put in an x-pipe crossover before the sidepipes (and maybe redo the headers). The x-pipe on my restomod 67 Mustang fastback was one of the better choices I made. Also of interest, look at the photos of the original Coupe that was recently for sale by Mecum (examples below) -- although the inlets look to be the same, the "muffler" body is clearly a bigger diameter, as is the outlet. And the end result doesn't look too bad to my eye...

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/1965-...x2601/1416540/

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/1965-...x2601/1416547/

Other photos in the same gallery show other angles, as do other photos on the web of this car.

Ken

[TStack62]

Kim,


I just figured it would be easier to build 4 into 1 into 2 headers than to make 2 mufflers into 1 that look like 2... If that's what you meant.

But I like Ken's idea about the X-pipe too...

[JayP]

Am I seeing 70-80 hp???

[Detroit Kim]

TStack62, I think thats waht I'm saying. I was thinking if the two side pipes were actually one, it would give a little more muffling.
Kim

[NBWW]

They look great, but I wonder what kind of improvement can be had from the originals by adding a cross-over in front of the mufflers.
I know Brian Palmer did this.
Wouldn't that effectively double the flow?
I also wonder how this compares in cost to Levy's exhaust including his headers. Of course, those would have to be coated.

Just random thoughts, but Don's do look very nice.

[crossle45f33cf]

I believe that Mike Redmond did the mod to the standard side pipes where the two inlet pipes were connected effectively like an X pipe on each side of the car. I'll try to find the thread and post a link.

[crossle45f33cf]

Here's the link:

http://www.ffcobra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207773

He has a couple of photos that show the crossover fairly well.

[NBWW]

Thanks Trout.
I think that's the 1st thing I'll try.

[turbodon]

If you have a big motor, the twins will not give you 70hp with a cross over.. It may help on the sound freq. It may help the stock 302 a smidge.

But for a big motor no way...

Levy said the twins would choke a 408 by 60 hp. and they do...

Good luck...

[NBWW]

Yeah, it's inevitable I'll have to go to something bigger, but for now I'll run the twins.

[Gordon Levy]

Here's our coated and final mounted. The cost on these is a bit less than the roadster system.